tag:blogger.com,1999:blog-1442827238174603755.post557742179495318817..comments2023-09-11T08:30:08.843-07:00Comments on Life Training Institute Blog: Fallacy Monday: Begging the Question [Clinton Wilcox]SKhttp://www.blogger.com/profile/01905606527143286458noreply@blogger.comBlogger5125tag:blogger.com,1999:blog-1442827238174603755.post-19258330612040755952014-04-26T21:49:39.487-07:002014-04-26T21:49:39.487-07:00"So the argument that women need abortion bec..."So the argument that women need abortion because they might not be able to afford a child begs the question because we wouldn't allow a mother to kill her two-year-old child to make it easier to afford raising her other children (or because we think that growing up poor will mean the child won't have a good life). So if the unborn are full human persons, we can't justify abortion for that reason, either."<br /><br />Seeing that this argument is about money and not the life of the child, it would follow that it is better to kill everything on the planet that costs money. When they have switched the situation to money, then they have already completely missed it. I wonder how people can think like this.<br /><br />It is only a matter of time before people start saying that they WILL allow a two-year-old to be murdered if it is a financial burden.Chastity White Rosehttps://www.blogger.com/profile/17584399790745891849noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-1442827238174603755.post-91046876511351476322014-04-15T14:03:15.614-07:002014-04-15T14:03:15.614-07:00Looking out for fallacies isn't about trying t...Looking out for fallacies isn't about trying to win arguments. We should always strive to win the person above winning the argument (though of course, we need to make sure that we're using good arguments). If someone does beg the question by saying something like, "we need abortion because some women can't afford a child," then I'm not just going to say, "sorry, you're begging the question!" And I'm not going to respond with a fallacious argument because two wrongs don't make a right. Instead, it's much more effective to ask questions and help the person realize that their argument doesn't work. In this case, we can trot out the toddler. "I agree that raising a child can be difficult and costly. But suppose a woman has a toddler and decides she needs to kill the toddler so that she can afford to feed her older children. Should we allow her to do that?" Of course the answer will be no, so I'll go from there to show her that she's assuming the unborn are not valuable human beings, but if they are, then we can't justify abortion for that reason.Clinton Wilcoxhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/17018335374680419858noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-1442827238174603755.post-85386923935996528452014-04-15T06:15:38.780-07:002014-04-15T06:15:38.780-07:00So, what about responding to question-begging by q...So, what about responding to question-begging by question-begging?<br /><br />For example, a pro-abort says:<br /><br />you want to force your views on women<br /><br />I respond by saying:<br /><br />When a woman has an abortion, she, her husband and the abortionist are forcing their views on the unborn baby. And they're using lethal force to force their views. Since you oppose forcing views on others, you should join me in opposing abortion.<br /><br />It seems to me the response isn't a fallacy because it's exposing the question-begging aspect of the pro-abort's statement.Drew Hymernoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-1442827238174603755.post-78280783954924394862014-04-14T21:57:45.261-07:002014-04-14T21:57:45.261-07:00Except there are testimonies that prove your argum...Except there are testimonies that prove your argument about the "myth" completely false. It may not be common, but calling it a myth is far overstating matters. Believe it or not, abortionists and abortion counselors have lied to women so that they really didn't know what they were doing. A small sampling of women doesn't give you a perfect idea about all women who go in for an abortion.<br /><br />I'm not begging the question with my argument about women who are coerced. I'm talking about moral culpability here. At worst, a woman who goes in for an abortion would be an accomplice, not the murderer, herself, similar to a woman who hires a hitman to have her husband killed. But there are women who really don't know what they're doing, and there are women who are coerced into it by an abusive boyfriend or parent. Not all post-abortive women share equal culpability.Clinton Wilcoxhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/17018335374680419858noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-1442827238174603755.post-78838162893518288152014-04-14T17:39:53.524-07:002014-04-14T17:39:53.524-07:00"So the argument that women need abortion bec..."So the argument that women need abortion because they might not be able to afford a child begs the question because we wouldn't allow a mother to kill her two-year-old child to make it easier to afford raising her other children"<br /><br />You're right. If someone made that argument, they are begging the question. And yet in the comments of the last thread, you do just that: "For example, if she is coerced into it by a boyfriend, then her boyfriend and the abortionist bear the culpability, not her."<br /><br />If a woman killed her two-year old child because she was coerced into by a boyfriend, there's no way she would be avoiding prison time. It's only when we assume the unborn isn't fully human that we can talk about not having prison for women who get abortions. No one would ever suggest that a woman who kills a born child should be spared being put away in a prison or mental institution. <br /><br />As an aside, anyone who does even an hour of sidewalk protesting near an abortion clinic will have the myth of "woman-in-distress" completely blown away. You talk with the women getting abortions and you find out they know exactly what they're doing. Or if you want some hard statistics from Guttmacher, you'll see that the main reason women get abortions are socio-economic: Basically, having a kid would interfere with their lifestyle. Anonymousnoreply@blogger.com