tag:blogger.com,1999:blog-1442827238174603755.post8931515623547866473..comments2023-09-11T08:30:08.843-07:00Comments on Life Training Institute Blog: When Wanting Fame Means Having an Abortion [Daniel]SKhttp://www.blogger.com/profile/01905606527143286458noreply@blogger.comBlogger7125tag:blogger.com,1999:blog-1442827238174603755.post-53180532090832406032014-04-26T13:11:30.876-07:002014-04-26T13:11:30.876-07:00I am sad to hear that this problem happens in othe...I am sad to hear that this problem happens in other places like the UK too. It may be bad in the US but I know other places have the same problems. Relativism seems to have infected many cultures.<br /><br />I particularly like the pro-choicers who refer to abortion as a "necessary evil". What we can all work for is making the evil unnecessary.Chastity White Rosehttps://www.blogger.com/profile/17584399790745891849noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-1442827238174603755.post-46936233131413194732014-04-24T14:26:04.303-07:002014-04-24T14:26:04.303-07:00Chandler,
thanks for your comment. I'm glad y...Chandler,<br /><br />thanks for your comment. I'm glad you're outraged at her reason and the act of abortion, we all should be. My point is that even those who are pro-choice and honour those two values can be angry at her reason but still not view abortion as morally wrong. Most of the outrage has come from those who are pro-choice but object to her reason, this is a good start! See this article for a good example >>> http://www.theguardian.com/science/the-lay-scientist/2014/apr/23/1<br /><br />That's where we are at in the UK, morally confused to the extreme. I have my work cut out.failedatheisthttps://www.blogger.com/profile/16176322877697068624noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-1442827238174603755.post-54571997969058039932014-04-24T07:52:55.152-07:002014-04-24T07:52:55.152-07:00"Unfortunately when those values are combined..."Unfortunately when those values are combined with the uncritical dehumanising of the unborn there will only be outrage at the reasons for abortion rather than the act itself."<br /><br />I am outraged at the reasons and the act itself. If others object to the reasons or the act, the act will not happen.Chastity White Rosehttps://www.blogger.com/profile/17584399790745891849noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-1442827238174603755.post-27384026739591842202014-04-24T07:28:23.476-07:002014-04-24T07:28:23.476-07:00Paul,
I can only reiterate the first step is maki...Paul,<br /><br />I can only reiterate the first step is making sure that those who commit illegal abortions feel the full force of the law to set a precedent. The vast majority of abortions performed in the UK are actually illegal already but this is ignored. I'm actually not saying *all* women are victims but many are and that is undeniable. I would also like to clarify that just because someone is a victim does not mean they bare no guilt. <br /><br />Some women know they are killing a whole, living, distinct and growing human being and they continue anyway those women are clearly not innocent. However, the culture of silence from the pews is as much of a problem as the secular based dehumanising of the unborn is for this. <br /><br />failedatheisthttps://www.blogger.com/profile/16176322877697068624noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-1442827238174603755.post-90266291914122533992014-04-24T05:17:14.405-07:002014-04-24T05:17:14.405-07:00If we're ever going to win, we have to get ove...If we're ever going to win, we have to get over this "aborting-woman-as-victim" mentality. In plays right into our opponents hands. Our opponents can say, "see, even you see how ridiculous it is to compare abortion to murder. You wouldn't send an fetus-killer to jail any more than you'd send someone who kills a hamster." Many of our opponents will even exploit this as part of their "war on women" rhetoric: "Women can't be trusted with moral decisions like abortion, but given their tiny lady brains, we shouldn't be prosecuting them, because that would be like prosecuting a 13 year old. Women are innocent and simple and just don't know what they're doing". <br /><br />Look, I totally understand that we're going to catch a lot of flak if we really criticize women who get abortions. Even the pro-life movement has deemed this politically incorrect. But if even one woman becomes convinced of our rhetoric, we just might save a baby. A woman who thinks she's a victim is going to get that abortion; a woman who believes she's a murderer won't. And if a lot of people become actually convinced of our rhetoric, we'll change the laws. Our country's laws follow our presumed morals, not the other way around. The elites of this country are never going to give us a law against abortion on their own -- we're going to have to convince people that abortion is *really* murder. Otherwise we'll just end up with abortion being generally legal, with this-or-that restriction in place in the more conservative states.Anonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-1442827238174603755.post-56864857552552749832014-04-23T01:54:06.608-07:002014-04-23T01:54:06.608-07:00Paul,
thanks for reading and taking the time to w...Paul,<br /><br />thanks for reading and taking the time to write a comment.<br /><br />*Would you be saying those last 2 sentences if Josie were killing her 2 year born child instead of her 18-week unborn child?*<br /><br />I do not doubt the selfishness in her reasoning and pointed this out implicitly in her desire for personal peace (her desire for an uninterrupted life). In regards to your question, my answer would be no I wouldn't have. But that's because there hasn't been a concerted campaign to dehumanise two years old for the last forty years. That's not to say it couldn't one day happen but it's different and somewhat easier for the unborn to be dehumanised and therefore put outside the moral and human community. The humanity and moral worth of born children is bar a few philosophers simply a brute fact for most people today, even if that hasn't been historically the case (Ancient Roman and Greek cultures etc). <br /><br />The problem is, she is whether you like it or not a victim of misinformation and propaganda and her unborn child will suffer as a result. I agree, she is about to kill someone but UK law does not recognise that to be the case so shouting loudly (as much as I would love to) that she should be imprisoned will fall on deaf ears. However, even under UK law procuring an abortion for the reason she gave is illegal so if she goes through with it the Dr could be prosecuted. Unfortunately the CPS rarely go ahead with a prosecution which is a moral travesty but I certainly will kick up a fuss.<br /><br /> *What's the difference between the unborn and the born child that changed your mind?*<br /><br />I'm not sure I understand since I do believe the unborn are human persons and defend that claim from the end of the process of conception. You're right though Scott's S.L.E.D. acronym is a great discussion tool which I wholly embrace. <br /><br />Please let me know if you want me to clarify anything I've said.<br /><br />Regards<br /><br /><br />failedatheisthttps://www.blogger.com/profile/16176322877697068624noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-1442827238174603755.post-82205055934727555432014-04-21T18:20:45.741-07:002014-04-21T18:20:45.741-07:00Daniel,
Would you be saying those last 2 sentence...Daniel,<br /><br />Would you be saying those last 2 sentences if Josie were killing her 2 year born child instead of her 18-week unborn child? No talk from you of Josie deserving prison or anything like that. Just "she's a victim -- let's pray for her". It's like, do we believe our own arguments about the unborn being people? Selfishness is a huge understatement for this mother. It's not like she just double-parked or something. She is about to kill someone. <br /><br />You know, we could bring someone on this forum from Planned Parenthood, and they will tell you that the unborn have value and some will say they're babies-- it's just that their value isn't near as much as a born child. That is, killing a fetus is like killing a pet hamster-- regrettable, but certainly not worthy of criminal charges for the perpetrator. What's the difference between the unborn and the born child that changed your mind? For many, it's the "level of development". If Scott Klusendorf's S.L.E.D. arguments won't convince us, they're not going to convince our opponents.Anonymousnoreply@blogger.com